Public

Live delta: Can masks partially be reused?

16 Discord messages from live-delta/⁉️-questions/Can masks partially be reused?.md.

This group comes from a signed-in Discord search capture. These records were not present in the public monthly JSON exports at the time this archive was built.

Parent/category shown by Discord search: ⁉️-questions

Messages: 16

message-1536640366386741349

2026-08-11T07:40:12.744Z — Chips4Makers aka Staf Verhaegen

  • Message ID: 1536640366386741349
  • Guild ID: 1361349522684510449
  • Source: signed-in Discord server search DOM capture
  • Timestamp: 2026-08-11T07:40:12.744Z
  • Search group: Can masks partially be reused?, ⁉️-questions

Content

I don't see why not. Most foundries allows to reorder one or more masks for a design fix.

Reply/reference text

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message-1536640722114183189

2026-08-11T07:41:37.556Z — Chips4Makers aka Staf Verhaegen

  • Message ID: 1536640722114183189
  • Guild ID: 1361349522684510449
  • Source: signed-in Discord server search DOM capture
  • Timestamp: 2026-08-11T07:41:37.556Z
  • Search group: Can masks partially be reused?, ⁉️-questions

Content

I was wondering if something like this reduces non recurring mask set costs since you could reuse masks for the bottom layers?

Yes, and this known as [structured ASICs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structured_ASIC_platform).

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  "Structured ASIC platform\nStructured ASIC is an intermediate technology between ASIC and FPGA, offering high performance, a characteristic of ASIC, and low NRE cost, a characteristic of FPGA. Using structured ASIC allows products to be introduced quickly to market, to have lower cost and to be designed with ease.\nIn a FPGA, interconnects and logic blocks are programmable..."
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message-1536642071694282782

2026-08-11T07:46:59.321Z — Tim 'mithro' Ansell

  • Message ID: 1536642071694282782
  • Guild ID: 1361349522684510449
  • Source: signed-in Discord server search DOM capture
  • Timestamp: 2026-08-11T07:46:59.321Z
  • Search group: Can masks partially be reused?, ⁉️-questions

Content

I don't see why not. Most foundries allows to reorder one or more masks for a design fix.

Reply/reference text

@Chips4Makers aka Staf Verhaegen
I don't see why not. Most foundries allows to reorder one or more masks for a design fix.
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message-1537275134744858687

2026-08-13T01:42:33.314Z — namibj

  • Message ID: 1537275134744858687
  • Guild ID: 1361349522684510449
  • Source: signed-in Discord server search DOM capture
  • Timestamp: 2026-08-13T01:42:33.314Z
  • Search group: Can masks partially be reused?, ⁉️-questions

Content

Hmmmm, might be part of the relatively large node and thus relatively low manufacturing cost for a mask; I'd expect smaller nodes to much sooner offer substantial discounts for re-using most mask layers in a respin, provided those customers are full-reticle customers.

Though, thinking again about the costs Tim mentioned a while ago regarding the spread between masks and wafers, they should allow a respin with an e.g. new/replaced via or single metal mask for much less than a full respin would cost; but I'd still expect that one mask to be billed at effectively 2~5 times what it costs when it's billed as part of a full run.
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message-1537275667715063909

2026-08-13T01:44:40.384Z — Tim 'mithro' Ansell

  • Message ID: 1537275667715063909
  • Guild ID: 1361349522684510449
  • Source: signed-in Discord server search DOM capture
  • Timestamp: 2026-08-13T01:44:40.384Z
  • Search group: Can masks partially be reused?, ⁉️-questions

Content

Hmmmm, might be part of the relatively large node and thus relatively low manufacturing cost for a mask; I'd expect smaller nodes to much sooner offer substantial discounts for re-using most mask layers in a respin, provided those customers are full-reticle customers.  Though, thinking again about the costs Tim mentioned a while ago regarding the spread between masks and wafers, they should allow a respin with an e.g. new/replaced via or single metal mask for much less than a full respin would cost; but I'd still expect that one mask to be billed at effectively 2~5 times what it costs when it's billed as part of a full run.

Reply/reference text

@namibj
Hmmmm, might be part of the relatively large node and thus relatively low manufacturing cost for a mask; I'd expect smaller nodes to much sooner offer substantial discounts for re-using most mask layers in a respin, provided those customers are full-reticle customers.  Though, thinking again about the costs Tim mentioned a while ago regarding the spread between masks and wafers, they should allow a respin with an e.g. new/replaced via or single metal mask for much less than a full respin would cost; but I'd still expect that one mask to be billed at effectively 2~5 times what it costs when it's billed as part of a full run.
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message-1537275748530913380

2026-08-13T01:44:59.652Z — namibj

  • Message ID: 1537275748530913380
  • Guild ID: 1361349522684510449
  • Source: signed-in Discord server search DOM capture
  • Timestamp: 2026-08-13T01:44:59.652Z
  • Search group: Can masks partially be reused?, ⁉️-questions

Content

(Also, this matters much less for an MPW run than it does when all dies on a reticle are the same; because in the latter case, quite many "minor" bug fixes of the hardware/RTL can (with some flexible cells prepared to help, and some considerations in routing ofc.) be done with like 1~2 via layers and 1~2 metal layers getting their masks respun, and then running the "fixed" mask set through the wafer fab again.)
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message-1537275792936009779

2026-08-13T01:45:10.239Z — namibj

  • Message ID: 1537275792936009779
  • Guild ID: 1361349522684510449
  • Source: signed-in Discord server search DOM capture
  • Timestamp: 2026-08-13T01:45:10.239Z
  • Search group: Can masks partially be reused?, ⁉️-questions

Content

"Engineering wafers"?
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message-1537276195190603857

2026-08-13T01:46:46.144Z — namibj

  • Message ID: 1537276195190603857
  • Guild ID: 1361349522684510449
  • Source: signed-in Discord server search DOM capture
  • Timestamp: 2026-08-13T01:46:46.144Z
  • Search group: Can masks partially be reused?, ⁉️-questions

Content

And yeah I was expecting a "don't bother the engineers, do it right he first time" fee of around 10~30 k$, plus the mask fee billed at a premium for special order (not just a full set packaged together and all), plus as applicable possibly extra hourly for DRC discussions and such.
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message-1537276284265046157

2026-08-13T01:47:07.381Z — Tim 'mithro' Ansell

  • Message ID: 1537276284265046157
  • Guild ID: 1361349522684510449
  • Source: signed-in Discord server search DOM capture
  • Timestamp: 2026-08-13T01:47:07.381Z
  • Search group: Can masks partially be reused?, ⁉️-questions

Content

"Engineering wafers" just means that they do extra checking to make sure things are working properly I think. Guess checking things like people haven't accidentally mislabelled a metal1 mask as metal2 or something like that.
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message-1537276371779190845

2026-08-13T01:47:28.246Z — namibj

  • Message ID: 1537276371779190845
  • Guild ID: 1361349522684510449
  • Source: signed-in Discord server search DOM capture
  • Timestamp: 2026-08-13T01:47:28.246Z
  • Search group: Can masks partially be reused?, ⁉️-questions

Content

huh
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message-1537276474007232513

2026-08-13T01:47:52.619Z — namibj

  • Message ID: 1537276474007232513
  • Guild ID: 1361349522684510449
  • Source: signed-in Discord server search DOM capture
  • Timestamp: 2026-08-13T01:47:52.619Z
  • Search group: Can masks partially be reused?, ⁉️-questions

Content

yeah, actually running silicon through litho isn't it, right?
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message-1537276643196936253

2026-08-13T01:48:32.957Z — Tim 'mithro' Ansell

  • Message ID: 1537276643196936253
  • Guild ID: 1361349522684510449
  • Source: signed-in Discord server search DOM capture
  • Timestamp: 2026-08-13T01:48:32.957Z
  • Search group: Can masks partially be reused?, ⁉️-questions

Content

yeah, actually running silicon through litho isn't it, right?

Reply/reference text

@namibj
yeah, actually running silicon through litho isn't it, right?
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message-1537276915977551912

2026-08-13T01:49:37.993Z — namibj

  • Message ID: 1537276915977551912
  • Guild ID: 1361349522684510449
  • Source: signed-in Discord server search DOM capture
  • Timestamp: 2026-08-13T01:49:37.993Z
  • Search group: Can masks partially be reused?, ⁉️-questions

Content

Either it's a fee for engineer time of looking at the mask set, or it's a fee for handling of literal wafers that are machined for purposes of engineering ahead of the production run.
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message-1537378873442967613

2026-08-13T08:34:46.547Z — Chips4Makers aka Staf Verhaegen

  • Message ID: 1537378873442967613
  • Guild ID: 1361349522684510449
  • Source: signed-in Discord server search DOM capture
  • Timestamp: 2026-08-13T08:34:46.547Z
  • Search group: Can masks partially be reused?, ⁉️-questions

Content

Swapping in a mask is pretty cheap - but you have to rerun "Engineering wafers" and such. Most of the complexity comes from bureaucracy / coordination / communication point of view.

Reply/reference text

@Tim 'mithro' Ansell
 [TT], 
Server Tag: TT
TT
Swapping in a mask is pretty cheap - but you have to rerun "Engineering wafers" and such. Most of the complexity comes from bureaucracy / coordination / communication point of view.
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message-1538968714010042398

2026-08-17T17:52:14.076Z — rahulbhagwat

  • Message ID: 1538968714010042398
  • Guild ID: 1361349522684510449
  • Source: signed-in Discord server search DOM capture
  • Timestamp: 2026-08-17T17:52:14.076Z
  • Search group: Can masks partially be reused?, ⁉️-questions

Content

https://x.com/plugyawn/status/2088834602433712591?s=46

Reply/reference text

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message-1539180482674032720

2026-08-18T07:53:43.660Z — Chips4Makers aka Staf Verhaegen

  • Message ID: 1539180482674032720
  • Guild ID: 1361349522684510449
  • Source: signed-in Discord server search DOM capture
  • Timestamp: 2026-08-18T07:53:43.660Z
  • Search group: Can masks partially be reused?, ⁉️-questions

Content

https://x.com/plugyawn/status/2088834602433712591?s=46

Reply/reference text

@rahulbhagwat
 [TT], 
Server Tag: TT
TT
https://x.com/plugyawn/status/2088834602433712591?s=46
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