Category: π - Designing
Parent channel: #π-project-template
Thread ID: 1526579676183662662
Messages: 10
message-1526579929158914048
2026-07-14T13:23:37.595+00:00 β RebelMike (@rebelmike)
- Message ID:
1526579929158914048 - Author ID:
691780627338625077 - Nickname: RebelMike
- User name: rebelmike
- Type:
21 - Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1526579676183662662/1526579929158914048
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%F0%9F%93%90%20-%20Designing/%F0%9F%93%9D-project-template/template-update/2026-07/2026-07.json
Reply/reference
<details> <summary>Reference data</summary>{
"channelId": "1423348662318272592",
"guildId": "1361349522684510449",
"messageId": "1526579676183662662"
}
</details>Content
<details>
<summary>Other message metadata</summary>{
"author": {
"avatarUrl": "2026-07_media/49aaff687e56f04e7bbdedf0077bab75-7DDB4.png",
"discriminator": "0000",
"isBot": false
},
"message": {
"mentions": [
{
"avatarUrl": "2026-07_media/3c7c17f3225f6e56f4dccd83f14383f2-73F83.png",
"color": null,
"discriminator": "0000",
"id": "323371864074485771",
"isBot": false,
"name": "mole99",
"nickname": "Leo Moser (mole99)",
"roles": [
{
"color": null,
"id": "1423020172595298314",
"name": "Mod",
"position": 4
}
]
}
]
}
}
</details>message-1526579932665217205
2026-07-14T13:23:38.431+00:00 β RebelMike (@rebelmike)
- Message ID:
1526579932665217205 - Author ID:
691780627338625077 - Nickname: RebelMike
- User name: rebelmike
- Type:
Default - Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1526579676183662662/1526579932665217205
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%F0%9F%93%90%20-%20Designing/%F0%9F%93%9D-project-template/template-update/2026-07/2026-07.json
Content
Awesome, thanks Leo - that makes the update nice and easy to apply π
Reactions
- Resolved media URL: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%F0%9F%93%90%20-%20Designing/%F0%9F%93%9D-project-template/template-update/2026-07/2026-07_media/2764-A3D25.svg
- Resolved media URL: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%F0%9F%93%90%20-%20Designing/%F0%9F%93%9D-project-template/template-update/2026-07/2026-07_media/3c7c17f3225f6e56f4dccd83f14383f2-73F83.png
[
{
"count": 1,
"emoji": {
"code": "heart",
"id": "",
"imageUrl": "2026-07_media/2764-A3D25.svg",
"isAnimated": false,
"name": "β€οΈ"
},
"users": [
{
"avatarUrl": "2026-07_media/3c7c17f3225f6e56f4dccd83f14383f2-73F83.png",
"color": null,
"discriminator": "0000",
"id": "323371864074485771",
"isBot": false,
"name": "mole99",
"nickname": "Leo Moser (mole99)"
}
]
}
]
</details><details>
<summary>Other message metadata</summary>{
"author": {
"avatarUrl": "2026-07_media/49aaff687e56f04e7bbdedf0077bab75-7DDB4.png",
"discriminator": "0000",
"isBot": false
},
"message": {
"inlineEmojis": [
{
"code": "slight_smile",
"id": "",
"imageUrl": "2026-07_media/1f642-83E8A.svg",
"isAnimated": false,
"name": "π"
}
]
}
}
</details>message-1526589640209993789
2026-07-14T14:02:12.89+00:00 β namibj
- Message ID:
1526589640209993789 - Author ID:
262706220073222144 - Nickname: namibj
- User name: namibj
- Type:
Default - Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1526579676183662662/1526589640209993789
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%F0%9F%93%90%20-%20Designing/%F0%9F%93%9D-project-template/template-update/2026-07/2026-07.json
Content
Notably, the `buf_8` (and the identical in all ways that matter, `clkbuf_8`) had a gate finger (spanning both pmos and nmos) in place of what probably should have been a diffusion break; result was that the 3 active fingers on the input (depends on if high or low; the cell is electrically symmetric between nmos and pmos) fed a diode-connected finger of the 8 output fingers (they all share the same gate) and e.g. on input low resulted in about 2.7V (TT default temperature) across an nmos finger with a little over 300ΞΌA through that finger; a side effect should be that the actual output fingers don't properly turn their complement (in that condition, the pmos fingers) off at least on some PVT corners, which causes further but probably overall less significant power dissipation.
TL;DR: an accidentally placed gate in `buf_8` and `clkbuf_8` caused 1 mW static power consumption (and possibly somewhat impaired output logic levels, I'd particularly worry about reduced output-high levels).
Many chips would probably just "melt" from the power wastage.
<details>
<summary>Other message metadata</summary>{
"author": {
"avatarUrl": "2026-07_media/f885abc0dddd0a33e4d4991b3c99091d-7ACD2.png",
"discriminator": "0000",
"isBot": false
},
"message": {}
}
</details>message-1526642411508334695
2026-07-14T17:31:54.548+00:00 β Tim Edwards (@rtimothyedwards_19428)
- Message ID:
1526642411508334695 - Author ID:
1365118310701600900 - Nickname: Tim Edwards
- User name: rtimothyedwards_19428
- Type:
Default - Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1526579676183662662/1526642411508334695
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%F0%9F%93%90%20-%20Designing/%F0%9F%93%9D-project-template/template-update/2026-07/2026-07.json
Content
Fortunately on my SRAM test chip I went for a `buf_12`. But I expect that my original SoC design on Run 1 is toast (or is a toaster).
Reactions
- Resolved media URL: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%F0%9F%93%90%20-%20Designing/%F0%9F%93%9D-project-template/template-update/2026-07/2026-07_media/1f35e-12A02.svg
- Resolved media URL: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%F0%9F%93%90%20-%20Designing/%F0%9F%93%9D-project-template/template-update/2026-07/2026-07_media/3c7c17f3225f6e56f4dccd83f14383f2-73F83.png
[
{
"count": 1,
"emoji": {
"code": "bread",
"id": "",
"imageUrl": "2026-07_media/1f35e-12A02.svg",
"isAnimated": false,
"name": "π"
},
"users": [
{
"avatarUrl": "2026-07_media/3c7c17f3225f6e56f4dccd83f14383f2-73F83.png",
"color": null,
"discriminator": "0000",
"id": "323371864074485771",
"isBot": false,
"name": "mole99",
"nickname": "Leo Moser (mole99)"
}
]
}
]
</details><details>
<summary>Other message metadata</summary>{
"author": {
"avatarUrl": "2026-07_media/6bcc8e61db497b620550682309ace5d5-D89B4.png",
"discriminator": "0000",
"isBot": false
},
"message": {}
}
</details>message-1526655254215524474
2026-07-14T18:22:56.488+00:00 β namibj
- Message ID:
1526655254215524474 - Author ID:
262706220073222144 - Nickname: namibj
- User name: namibj
- Type:
Reply - Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1526579676183662662/1526655254215524474
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%F0%9F%93%90%20-%20Designing/%F0%9F%93%9D-project-template/template-update/2026-07/2026-07.json
Reply/reference
<details> <summary>Reference data</summary>{
"channelId": "1526579676183662662",
"guildId": "1361349522684510449",
"messageId": "1526642411508334695"
}
</details>Content
I'll try to simulate the old broken buffer behavior on very low supply voltage around next week or thereabouts; there's a chance it's operable at least if you don't have any deliberate power gating transistors in your design that would rely on sufficiently strong gate drive for sufficiently tame voltage drop.
<details>
<summary>Other message metadata</summary>{
"author": {
"avatarUrl": "2026-07_media/f885abc0dddd0a33e4d4991b3c99091d-7ACD2.png",
"discriminator": "0000",
"isBot": false
},
"message": {
"mentions": [
{
"avatarUrl": "2026-07_media/6bcc8e61db497b620550682309ace5d5-D89B4.png",
"color": null,
"discriminator": "0000",
"id": "1365118310701600900",
"isBot": false,
"name": "rtimothyedwards_19428",
"nickname": "Tim Edwards",
"roles": []
}
]
}
}
</details>message-1527051476789235983
2026-07-15T20:37:23.311+00:00 β Tim Edwards (@rtimothyedwards_19428)
- Message ID:
1527051476789235983 - Author ID:
1365118310701600900 - Nickname: Tim Edwards
- User name: rtimothyedwards_19428
- Type:
Default - Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1526579676183662662/1527051476789235983
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%F0%9F%93%90%20-%20Designing/%F0%9F%93%9D-project-template/template-update/2026-07/2026-07.json
Content
Well, I did a count of the `buff_8` on `gf180mcu_ocd_openframe` (my PicoRV32 test chip with all 3.3V components) and it uses `buff_8` 2,498 times, so that is potentially a lot of current.
<details>
<summary>Other message metadata</summary>{
"author": {
"avatarUrl": "2026-07_media/6bcc8e61db497b620550682309ace5d5-D89B4.png",
"discriminator": "0000",
"isBot": false
},
"message": {}
}
</details>message-1527052739455094784
2026-07-15T20:42:24.354+00:00 β Tim Edwards (@rtimothyedwards_19428)
- Message ID:
1527052739455094784 - Author ID:
1365118310701600900 - Nickname: Tim Edwards
- User name: rtimothyedwards_19428
- Type:
Default - Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1526579676183662662/1527052739455094784
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%F0%9F%93%90%20-%20Designing/%F0%9F%93%9D-project-template/template-update/2026-07/2026-07.json
Content
I assume that the buffer is _functional_ or else `lctime` would have produced garbage output in the .lib file for it. The amount of current is going to be the issue. I estimate somewhere between a half an amp and an amp total.
<details>
<summary>Other message metadata</summary>{
"author": {
"avatarUrl": "2026-07_media/6bcc8e61db497b620550682309ace5d5-D89B4.png",
"discriminator": "0000",
"isBot": false
},
"message": {}
}
</details>message-1527055896084086945
2026-07-15T20:54:56.953+00:00 β namibj
- Message ID:
1527055896084086945 - Author ID:
262706220073222144 - Nickname: namibj
- User name: namibj
- Type:
Reply - Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1526579676183662662/1527055896084086945
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%F0%9F%93%90%20-%20Designing/%F0%9F%93%9D-project-template/template-update/2026-07/2026-07.json
Reply/reference
<details> <summary>Reference data</summary>{
"channelId": "1526579676183662662",
"guildId": "1361349522684510449",
"messageId": "1527052739455094784"
}
</details>Content
It does _buffer,_ on tt 3v3 default spice temperature it has an output high of like 2.71 V.
<details>
<summary>Other message metadata</summary>{
"author": {
"avatarUrl": "2026-07_media/f885abc0dddd0a33e4d4991b3c99091d-7ACD2.png",
"discriminator": "0000",
"isBot": false
},
"message": {
"mentions": [
{
"avatarUrl": "2026-07_media/6bcc8e61db497b620550682309ace5d5-D89B4.png",
"color": null,
"discriminator": "0000",
"id": "1365118310701600900",
"isBot": false,
"name": "rtimothyedwards_19428",
"nickname": "Tim Edwards",
"roles": []
}
]
}
}
</details>message-1527056573116190860
2026-07-15T20:57:38.37+00:00 β namibj
- Message ID:
1527056573116190860 - Author ID:
262706220073222144 - Nickname: namibj
- User name: namibj
- Type:
Default - Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1526579676183662662/1527056573116190860
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%F0%9F%93%90%20-%20Designing/%F0%9F%93%9D-project-template/template-update/2026-07/2026-07.json
Content
The pertinent question will be how the STA holds up as you drop voltage and clock.
Does it reach a point where it won't try to melt the die (2.5W is "manageable") and still doesn't experience hold violations?
<details>
<summary>Other message metadata</summary>{
"author": {
"avatarUrl": "2026-07_media/f885abc0dddd0a33e4d4991b3c99091d-7ACD2.png",
"discriminator": "0000",
"isBot": false
},
"message": {}
}
</details>message-1527056905665515611
2026-07-15T20:58:57.656+00:00 β namibj
- Message ID:
1527056905665515611 - Author ID:
262706220073222144 - Nickname: namibj
- User name: namibj
- Type:
Default - Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1526579676183662662/1527056905665515611
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%F0%9F%93%90%20-%20Designing/%F0%9F%93%9D-project-template/template-update/2026-07/2026-07.json
Content
(I'm thinking that maybe at like 1.2V or something the static power stops needing a heatsink and the chip can run at still like 1% nominal clock speed or such.)
<details>
<summary>Other message metadata</summary>{
"author": {
"avatarUrl": "2026-07_media/f885abc0dddd0a33e4d4991b3c99091d-7ACD2.png",
"discriminator": "0000",
"isBot": false
},
"message": {}
}
</details>