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title: "Thread: I managed to persuade pdngen to connect"
slug: wsd-i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect-acd85164
route: /evidence/i-information/general/threads/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect
section: reference
access: public
summary: 24 Discord messages from ℹ️ - Information/general/threads/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect.md.
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tags: [discord, wafer-space, archive]
last_updated: 2026-08-19
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talk_route: /evidence/i-information/general/threads/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/talk
---

# Thread: I managed to persuade pdngen to connect

Category: **ℹ️ - Information**
Parent channel: **#general**
Thread ID: `1410252190282678284`

Messages: **24**

## message-1410252312555028652

**2025-08-27T13:19:12.534+00:00 — Leo Moser (mole99) (@mole99)**

- Message ID: `1410252312555028652`
- Author ID: `323371864074485771`
- Nickname: Leo Moser (mole99)
- User name: mole99
- Type: `21`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1410252190282678284/1410252312555028652
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/Voice%20Channels/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json

**Reply/reference**
- https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1361349523724570941/1410252190282678284
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<summary>Reference data</summary>

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**Content**

```text

```

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## message-1410252315264417812

**2025-08-27T13:19:13.18+00:00 — Leo Moser (mole99) (@mole99)**

- Message ID: `1410252315264417812`
- Author ID: `323371864074485771`
- Nickname: Leo Moser (mole99)
- User name: mole99
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1410252190282678284/1410252315264417812
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/Voice%20Channels/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json

**Content**

```text
The trick (or problem) is that the DVDD/DVSS pins are all on Metal2, which means the PDN ring will only connect to the pads via Metal2. Metal2 is vertical by default, which means we can only have I/O power/ground cells in the northern or southern I/O row (in the current setup, I hope we can change this).
```

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---

## message-1410252372957069343

**2025-08-27T13:19:26.935+00:00 — Leo Moser (mole99) (@mole99)**

- Message ID: `1410252372957069343`
- Author ID: `323371864074485771`
- Nickname: Leo Moser (mole99)
- User name: mole99
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1410252190282678284/1410252372957069343
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/Voice%20Channels/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json

**Content**

```text
This example design now runs through the whole flow without any problems, except that netgen LVS fails since the power/ground pins are not yet properly represented in the PNL.
```

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---

## message-1410252472588566569

**2025-08-27T13:19:50.689+00:00 — Leo Moser (mole99) (@mole99)**

- Message ID: `1410252472588566569`
- Author ID: `323371864074485771`
- Nickname: Leo Moser (mole99)
- User name: mole99
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1410252190282678284/1410252472588566569
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/Voice%20Channels/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json

**Content**

```text
@tnt I think you looked into overriding the preferred directions in pdngen at some point? Did you manage to achieve this?
```

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---

## message-1410252619066249226

**2025-08-27T13:20:25.612+00:00 — Leo Moser (mole99) (@mole99)**

- Message ID: `1410252619066249226`
- Author ID: `323371864074485771`
- Nickname: Leo Moser (mole99)
- User name: mole99
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1410252190282678284/1410252619066249226
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/Voice%20Channels/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json

**Content**

```text
@htamas I noticed that you have some `CONNECT_POWER_PADS` defines in your code. Did you manage to get the PNL to properly connect the core PDN to the I/O power/ground bondpad pins?
```

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---

## message-1410252707960193034

**2025-08-27T13:20:46.806+00:00 — Leo Moser (mole99) (@mole99)**

- Message ID: `1410252707960193034`
- Author ID: `323371864074485771`
- Nickname: Leo Moser (mole99)
- User name: mole99
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1410252190282678284/1410252707960193034
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/Voice%20Channels/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json

**Content**

```text
I'm gonna upload this repo soon to the wafer.space GitHub with a WIP PDK so anyone can reproduce this with the LibreLane padring step.
```

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## message-1410254307466678363

**2025-08-27T13:27:08.158+00:00 — tnt (@246tnt)**

- Message ID: `1410254307466678363`
- Author ID: `596068704471482370`
- Nickname: tnt
- User name: 246tnt
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1410252190282678284/1410254307466678363
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/Voice%20Channels/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json

**Content**

```text
@Leo Moser (mole99) No, I didn't manage to do it, it's pretty wired down everywhere ...   and in the end the IHP guys changed the direction in the tech LEF 😅
```

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---

## message-1410255682703458345

**2025-08-27T13:32:36.04+00:00 — Leo Moser (mole99) (@mole99)**

- Message ID: `1410255682703458345`
- Author ID: `323371864074485771`
- Nickname: Leo Moser (mole99)
- User name: mole99
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1410252190282678284/1410255682703458345
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/Voice%20Channels/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json

**Content**

```text
Well, that's one solution 😄

Actually, I think the `add_pdn_ring -connect_to_pads` function should be more flexible. If we have a core ring with Metal5 and Metal4, it should still be able to make all connections with Metal2 and then drop vias. Maybe this function just needs another argument to override this. I'll ask the folks at OpenROAD what they think about this.
```

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---

## message-1411401048547131502

**2025-08-30T17:23:52.537+00:00 — Leo Moser (mole99) (@mole99)**

- Message ID: `1411401048547131502`
- Author ID: `323371864074485771`
- Nickname: Leo Moser (mole99)
- User name: mole99
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1410252190282678284/1411401048547131502
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/Voice%20Channels/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json

**Content**

```text
I got the power/ground bondpads connected and LVS to match 👏
```

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---

## message-1411401157003444254

**2025-08-30T17:24:18.395+00:00 — Leo Moser (mole99) (@mole99)**

- Message ID: `1411401157003444254`
- Author ID: `323371864074485771`
- Nickname: Leo Moser (mole99)
- User name: mole99
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1410252190282678284/1411401157003444254
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json
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**Content**

````text
@htamas In your padring script, I saw that you used `place_io_terminals` to place the BTerms for the I/O pads, since the bondpads are integrated into the cells (as opposed to IHP):

```
place_io_terminals gf180mcu_fd_io__*/DVSS
place_io_terminals gf180mcu_fd_io__*/DVDD
```

It seems that `place_io_terminals` simply promotes the first pin of the specified port to a BTerm.
````

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## message-1411401179925184532

**2025-08-30T17:24:23.86+00:00 — Leo Moser (mole99) (@mole99)**

- Message ID: `1411401179925184532`
- Author ID: `323371864074485771`
- Nickname: Leo Moser (mole99)
- User name: mole99
- Type: `Default`
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**Content**

```text
For the default power/ground pads that would be one of the pins on the side, resulting in this:
```

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## message-1411401227786518723

**2025-08-30T17:24:35.271+00:00 — Leo Moser (mole99) (@mole99)**

- Message ID: `1411401227786518723`
- Author ID: `323371864074485771`
- Nickname: Leo Moser (mole99)
- User name: mole99
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**Content**

```text

```

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## message-1411401305083215922

**2025-08-30T17:24:53.7+00:00 — Leo Moser (mole99) (@mole99)**

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- Author ID: `323371864074485771`
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**Content**

````text
It turns out that the power/ground pads don't even have pins at the bondpad locations, so by default the `place_io_terminals` command cannot work as we want it to work.

Therefore, I tried to add a `PAD` port, just like the other I/O pads, which initially seemed to work fine: I could global-connect it to the respective VDD/VSS net. However, PSM would throw an error, because there is no physical connection between PAD and any of the power pins.

```
[18:32:56] ERROR    [PSM-0069] Check connectivity failed on VDD.
[18:33:07] ERROR    [PSM-0069] Check connectivity failed on VSS.
```
````

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<summary>Other message metadata</summary>

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</details>

---

## message-1411401404593213461

**2025-08-30T17:25:17.425+00:00 — Leo Moser (mole99) (@mole99)**

- Message ID: `1411401404593213461`
- Author ID: `323371864074485771`
- Nickname: Leo Moser (mole99)
- User name: mole99
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1410252190282678284/1411401404593213461
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/Voice%20Channels/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json

**Content**

````text
So instead I added another pin to the DVSS/DVDD ports that matches the location of the bondpads (same as PAD) and is listed as the first pin in the LEF file. This way `place_io_terminals` promotes the correct pin to a BTerm.

However, instead of:

```
place_io_terminals gf180mcu_fd_io__*/DVSS
place_io_terminals gf180mcu_fd_io__*/DVDD
```

We have to write:

```
place_io_terminals gf180mcu_fd_io__dvss*/DVSS
place_io_terminals gf180mcu_fd_io__dvdd*/DVDD
```

As otherwise we would still get one BTerm at the side of the power/ground pad.
````

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<summary>Other message metadata</summary>

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</details>

---

## message-1411401460440367104

**2025-08-30T17:25:30.74+00:00 — Leo Moser (mole99) (@mole99)**

- Message ID: `1411401460440367104`
- Author ID: `323371864074485771`
- Nickname: Leo Moser (mole99)
- User name: mole99
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1410252190282678284/1411401460440367104
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/Voice%20Channels/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json

**Content**

```text
With this change the PDN is complete:
```

<details>
<summary>Other message metadata</summary>

```json
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</details>

---

## message-1411401489586327582

**2025-08-30T17:25:37.689+00:00 — Leo Moser (mole99) (@mole99)**

- Message ID: `1411401489586327582`
- Author ID: `323371864074485771`
- Nickname: Leo Moser (mole99)
- User name: mole99
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1410252190282678284/1411401489586327582
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/Voice%20Channels/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json

**Content**

```text

```

**Attachments**

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<summary>Attachments data</summary>

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<details>
<summary>Other message metadata</summary>

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</details>

---

## message-1411401526529884161

**2025-08-30T17:25:46.497+00:00 — Leo Moser (mole99) (@mole99)**

- Message ID: `1411401526529884161`
- Author ID: `323371864074485771`
- Nickname: Leo Moser (mole99)
- User name: mole99
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1410252190282678284/1411401526529884161
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/Voice%20Channels/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json

**Content**

````text
PSM is happy:

```
[INFO PSM-0040] All shapes on net VDD are connected.
[INFO PSM-0040] All shapes on net VSS are connected.
```

And netgen as well:

```
Final result:
Circuits match uniquely.
```
````

**Reactions**

- Resolved media URL: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08_media/1f389-5C738.svg
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<summary>Reactions data</summary>

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<summary>Other message metadata</summary>

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</details>

---

## message-1411401665273266369

**2025-08-30T17:26:19.576+00:00 — Leo Moser (mole99) (@mole99)**

- Message ID: `1411401665273266369`
- Author ID: `323371864074485771`
- Nickname: Leo Moser (mole99)
- User name: mole99
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1410252190282678284/1411401665273266369
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/Voice%20Channels/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json

**Content**

```text
I think that would be reasonable change in the PDK. What do you think @tnt @htamas @Tholin?
```

<details>
<summary>Other message metadata</summary>

```json
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---

## message-1411404600610656318

**2025-08-30T17:37:59.415+00:00 — htamas (@h.tamas)**

- Message ID: `1411404600610656318`
- Author ID: `543162393413287956`
- Nickname: htamas
- User name: h.tamas
- Type: `Reply`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1410252190282678284/1411404600610656318
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/Voice%20Channels/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json

**Reply/reference**
- https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1410252190282678284/1411401665273266369
<details>
<summary>Reference data</summary>

```json
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</details>

**Content**

```text
Sounds good to me, thanks for figuring it out.
```

**Reactions**

- Resolved media URL: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08_media/1f44d-27259.svg
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---

## message-1411405175037493270

**2025-08-30T17:40:16.369+00:00 — Leo Moser (mole99) (@mole99)**

- Message ID: `1411405175037493270`
- Author ID: `323371864074485771`
- Nickname: Leo Moser (mole99)
- User name: mole99
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1410252190282678284/1411405175037493270
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/Voice%20Channels/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json

**Content**

```text
Thanks, your script was really helpful!
```

<details>
<summary>Other message metadata</summary>

```json
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---

## message-1411406382087012504

**2025-08-30T17:45:04.152+00:00 — tnt (@246tnt)**

- Message ID: `1411406382087012504`
- Author ID: `596068704471482370`
- Nickname: tnt
- User name: 246tnt
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1410252190282678284/1411406382087012504
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/Voice%20Channels/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json

**Content**

```text
@Leo Moser (mole99) ack.
```

<details>
<summary>Other message metadata</summary>

```json
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---

## message-1411407285707739176

**2025-08-30T17:48:39.592+00:00 — Tholin (@tholin)**

- Message ID: `1411407285707739176`
- Author ID: `220639106915368960`
- Nickname: Tholin
- User name: tholin
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1410252190282678284/1411407285707739176
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/Voice%20Channels/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json

**Content**

```text
Definitely a less scuffed solution than me giving the power/ground IO cells tails.
```

<details>
<summary>Other message metadata</summary>

```json
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---

## message-1411407411809484800

**2025-08-30T17:49:09.657+00:00 — Tholin (@tholin)**

- Message ID: `1411407411809484800`
- Author ID: `220639106915368960`
- Nickname: Tholin
- User name: tholin
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1410252190282678284/1411407411809484800
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/Voice%20Channels/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json

**Content**

```text
And tricking pdngen into thinking those tails are part of the PDN grid.
```

<details>
<summary>Other message metadata</summary>

```json
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</details>

---

## message-1411408857711775794

**2025-08-30T17:54:54.387+00:00 — Leo Moser (mole99) (@mole99)**

- Message ID: `1411408857711775794`
- Author ID: `323371864074485771`
- Nickname: Leo Moser (mole99)
- User name: mole99
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1410252190282678284/1411408857711775794
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/Voice%20Channels/general/i-managed-to-persuade-pdngen-to-connect/2025-08/2025-08.json

**Content**

```text
Sounds good then. I'll update the LEF view of `gf180mcu_fd_io__dvss` and `gf180mcu_fd_io__dvdd` to add the pin geometry.
```

**Reactions**

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---