---
page_id: wsd-diy-scl-9468477d
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title: "Thread: DIY SCL"
slug: wsd-diy-scl-9468477d
route: /evidence/i-information/general/threads/diy-scl
section: reference
access: public
summary: 36 Discord messages from ℹ️ - Information/general/threads/diy-scl.md.
status: published
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tags: [discord, wafer-space, archive]
last_updated: 2026-08-19
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talk_route: /evidence/i-information/general/threads/diy-scl/talk
---

# Thread: DIY SCL

Category: **ℹ️ - Information**
Parent channel: **#general**
Thread ID: `1499830130900598967`

Messages: **36**

## message-1499830281161408624

**2026-05-01T17:50:04.528+00:00 — namibj**

- Message ID: `1499830281161408624`
- Author ID: `262706220073222144`
- Nickname: namibj
- User name: namibj
- Type: `21`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1499830130900598967/1499830281161408624
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/diy-scl/2026-05/2026-05.json
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/Voice%20Channels/general/diy-scl/2026-05/2026-05.json

**Reply/reference**
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**Content**

```text

```

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## message-1499830285427146872

**2026-05-01T17:50:05.545+00:00 — namibj**

- Message ID: `1499830285427146872`
- Author ID: `262706220073222144`
- Nickname: namibj
- User name: namibj
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1499830130900598967/1499830285427146872
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/diy-scl/2026-05/2026-05.json
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/Voice%20Channels/general/diy-scl/2026-05/2026-05.json

**Content**

```text
I'm guessing my MCML SCL efforts are not particularly relevant for those/that application?
```

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## message-1499830322710450397

**2026-05-01T17:50:14.434+00:00 — Lofty (@ravenslofty)**

- Message ID: `1499830322710450397`
- Author ID: `1187141985530818611`
- Nickname: Lofty
- User name: ravenslofty
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1499830130900598967/1499830322710450397
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/diy-scl/2026-05/2026-05.json
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/Voice%20Channels/general/diy-scl/2026-05/2026-05.json

**Content**

```text
MCML?
```

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## message-1499830324148834360

**2026-05-01T17:50:14.777+00:00 — namibj**

- Message ID: `1499830324148834360`
- Author ID: `262706220073222144`
- Nickname: namibj
- User name: namibj
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1499830130900598967/1499830324148834360
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/diy-scl/2026-05/2026-05.json
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**Content**

```text
@Lofty @Tholin
```

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---

## message-1499830472434258051

**2026-05-01T17:50:50.131+00:00 — namibj**

- Message ID: `1499830472434258051`
- Author ID: `262706220073222144`
- Nickname: namibj
- User name: namibj
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1499830130900598967/1499830472434258051
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/diy-scl/2026-05/2026-05.json
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**Content**

```text

```

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## message-1499830478104956998

**2026-05-01T17:50:51.483+00:00 — Lofty (@ravenslofty)**

- Message ID: `1499830478104956998`
- Author ID: `1187141985530818611`
- Nickname: Lofty
- User name: ravenslofty
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1499830130900598967/1499830478104956998
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**Content**

```text
"mos current mode logic"
```

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## message-1499830483394101288

**2026-05-01T17:50:52.744+00:00 — namibj**

- Message ID: `1499830483394101288`
- Author ID: `262706220073222144`
- Nickname: namibj
- User name: namibj
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1499830130900598967/1499830483394101288
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/diy-scl/2026-05/2026-05.json
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**Content**

```text
MUX2
```

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## message-1499830596896034846

**2026-05-01T17:51:19.805+00:00 — Lofty (@ravenslofty)**

- Message ID: `1499830596896034846`
- Author ID: `1187141985530818611`
- Nickname: Lofty
- User name: ravenslofty
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1499830130900598967/1499830596896034846
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**Content**

```text
um, does this use differential signalling?
```

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## message-1499830827469771013

**2026-05-01T17:52:14.778+00:00 — namibj**

- Message ID: `1499830827469771013`
- Author ID: `262706220073222144`
- Nickname: namibj
- User name: namibj
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1499830130900598967/1499830827469771013
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/diy-scl/2026-05/2026-05.json
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**Content**

```text
stacks up to about 4~5 on sky130; probably more on gf180mcu due to higher voltage margins allowing for more stacked nmos to be in saturation, at least if there's near-zero-native-threshold voltage devices that can be placed in a raised pwell
```

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## message-1499830854535483563

**2026-05-01T17:52:21.231+00:00 — namibj**

- Message ID: `1499830854535483563`
- Author ID: `262706220073222144`
- Nickname: namibj
- User name: namibj
- Type: `Reply`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1499830130900598967/1499830854535483563
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/diy-scl/2026-05/2026-05.json
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```text
yes!
```

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## message-1499830887813091460

**2026-05-01T17:52:29.165+00:00 — namibj**

- Message ID: `1499830887813091460`
- Author ID: `262706220073222144`
- Nickname: namibj
- User name: namibj
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**Content**

```text
means inverters are free
```

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## message-1499831044088660098

**2026-05-01T17:53:06.424+00:00 — namibj**

- Message ID: `1499831044088660098`
- Author ID: `262706220073222144`
- Nickname: namibj
- User name: namibj
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1499830130900598967/1499831044088660098
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**Content**

```text
this is a delay cell of which you can use just 2 to get a quadrature VCO
```

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## message-1499831262737858791

**2026-05-01T17:53:58.554+00:00 — namibj**

- Message ID: `1499831262737858791`
- Author ID: `262706220073222144`
- Nickname: namibj
- User name: namibj
- Type: `Default`
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```text
well, you want a bias generator to adjust the load to get good swing at the tail current that gives the desired frequency
```

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## message-1499831543605231696

**2026-05-01T17:55:05.518+00:00 — Lofty (@ravenslofty)**

- Message ID: `1499831543605231696`
- Author ID: `1187141985530818611`
- Nickname: Lofty
- User name: ravenslofty
- Type: `Default`
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```text
so, Tholin's 3.3V static CMOS library will fit naturally into a synthesisable flow. mine will require...some finagling but *is* intended to be targetable by synthesis tools.

I'm...much less convinced about the feasibility of dual-rail logic from a synthesis tool. Of course people can hand-design all they want, but I think both Tholin and I want a library which is "good enough" for people.
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## message-1499831583555977307

**2026-05-01T17:55:15.043+00:00 — namibj**

- Message ID: `1499831583555977307`
- Author ID: `262706220073222144`
- Nickname: namibj
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- Type: `Default`
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**Content**

```text
I'm _trying_ to get the TX part of a serdes onto my tile on ttsky26a and would be porting the design to wafer.space Run2.
I'd expect to get a sprinkle of SCL done for the fall ttsky26
```

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## message-1499831637779808397

**2026-05-01T17:55:27.971+00:00 — namibj**

- Message ID: `1499831637779808397`
- Author ID: `262706220073222144`
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**Content**

```text
wdym dual-rail?
```

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## message-1499831878491046120

**2026-05-01T17:56:25.361+00:00 — Lofty (@ravenslofty)**

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- Author ID: `1187141985530818611`
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```text
"dual-rail" is the term for differential logic inside an integrated circuit
```

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---

## message-1499832011953668290

**2026-05-01T17:56:57.181+00:00 — namibj**

- Message ID: `1499832011953668290`
- Author ID: `262706220073222144`
- Nickname: namibj
- User name: namibj
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1499830130900598967/1499832011953668290
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```text
the cells once done as actual SCL blocks are just sipped with what currently looks to be a second metal trace over or right adjacent to the Vdd and GND power rails of a normal SCL footprint setup.
```

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---

## message-1499832381484568747

**2026-05-01T17:58:25.284+00:00 — namibj**

- Message ID: `1499832381484568747`
- Author ID: `262706220073222144`
- Nickname: namibj
- User name: namibj
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1499830130900598967/1499832381484568747
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**Content**

```text
The GND-side one is the tail bias; the Vdd-side one is the PMOS active tie one; that one is skippable in exchange for loosing the ability to dial power-delay-product without having to do dynamic Vdd scaling.
```

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---

## message-1499832414929686790

**2026-05-01T17:58:33.258+00:00 — namibj**

- Message ID: `1499832414929686790`
- Author ID: `262706220073222144`
- Nickname: namibj
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- Type: `Reply`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1499830130900598967/1499832414929686790
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**Reply/reference**
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```text
ohhhh
```

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---

## message-1499832613865656390

**2026-05-01T17:59:20.688+00:00 — namibj**

- Message ID: `1499832613865656390`
- Author ID: `262706220073222144`
- Nickname: namibj
- User name: namibj
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1499830130900598967/1499832613865656390
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```text
(I mean I'm pretty sure it can be routed as just a double-pitch track on the usual DRCs for metal corners.)
```

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---

## message-1499832815494103222

**2026-05-01T18:00:08.76+00:00 — Lofty (@ravenslofty)**

- Message ID: `1499832815494103222`
- Author ID: `1187141985530818611`
- Nickname: Lofty
- User name: ravenslofty
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1499830130900598967/1499832815494103222
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```text
um, not what I meant, exactly.
```

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---

## message-1499832910595883260

**2026-05-01T18:00:31.434+00:00 — namibj**

- Message ID: `1499832910595883260`
- Author ID: `262706220073222144`
- Nickname: namibj
- User name: namibj
- Type: `Default`
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```text
But yes, sure.
The bigger hurdle would likely be to teach yosys that some cells _exist_ but are often slower than decomposing (not always, and usually not smaller).
```

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## message-1499833132713509077

**2026-05-01T18:01:24.391+00:00 — Lofty (@ravenslofty)**

- Message ID: `1499833132713509077`
- Author ID: `1187141985530818611`
- Nickname: Lofty
- User name: ravenslofty
- Type: `Default`
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**Content**

```text
Well, that's the job of the liberty library.
```

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---

## message-1499833142637232382

**2026-05-01T18:01:26.757+00:00 — namibj**

- Message ID: `1499833142637232382`
- Author ID: `262706220073222144`
- Nickname: namibj
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```text
Are you suggesting that yosys would have more fundamental issues coping with the concept of free inversion?
```

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---

## message-1499833255187452010

**2026-05-01T18:01:53.591+00:00 — namibj**

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- Author ID: `262706220073222144`
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**Reply/reference**
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**Content**

```text
can't google
```

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---

## message-1499833711313817802

**2026-05-01T18:03:42.34+00:00 — Lofty (@ravenslofty)**

- Message ID: `1499833711313817802`
- Author ID: `1187141985530818611`
- Nickname: Lofty
- User name: ravenslofty
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**Reply/reference**
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```text
I'm... going to assume this was asked in good faith and you're not trying to imply I don't know how inverters work.
```

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---

## message-1499833948359102514

**2026-05-01T18:04:38.856+00:00 — Lofty (@ravenslofty)**

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- Author ID: `1187141985530818611`
- Nickname: Lofty
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**Reply/reference**
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**Content**

```text
https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~alanmi/publications/other/liberty07_03.pdf

It's a specification by Synopsis that basically all standard cell libraries use (sky130, gf180mcu, ihp sg13g2...)
```

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---

## message-1499834521019748412

**2026-05-01T18:06:55.389+00:00 — namibj**

- Message ID: `1499834521019748412`
- Author ID: `262706220073222144`
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**Reply/reference**
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**Content**

```text
No I'm well aware you know yosys and almost certianly the gate names way better than me.
```

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---

## message-1499834734530924665

**2026-05-01T18:07:46.294+00:00 — namibj**

- Message ID: `1499834734530924665`
- Author ID: `262706220073222144`
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- Type: `Default`
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**Content**

```text
But without differential logic it's AFAIK not the case that inversion is (close enough to) free.
```

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---

## message-1499835090266624010

**2026-05-01T18:09:11.108+00:00 — Lofty (@ravenslofty)**

- Message ID: `1499835090266624010`
- Author ID: `1187141985530818611`
- Nickname: Lofty
- User name: ravenslofty
- Type: `Reply`
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**Reply/reference**
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**Content**

```text
So, ABC flatly does not understand differential logic, so you have to treat your differential cells as single-rail (non-differential logic) for the purposes of mapping it, and then map from single-rail to dual-rail and duplicate the single-rail nets.

Realistically? That means writing a Yosys pass to do that transform.
```

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---

## message-1499835260727459935

**2026-05-01T18:09:51.749+00:00 — Lofty (@ravenslofty)**

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**Reply/reference**
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**Content**

```text
In domino logic inversion is free because it's impossible to express inverting functions :p
```

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---

## message-1499837125720281188

**2026-05-01T18:17:16.398+00:00 — namibj**

- Message ID: `1499837125720281188`
- Author ID: `262706220073222144`
- Nickname: namibj
- User name: namibj
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1499830130900598967/1499837125720281188
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/diy-scl/2026-05/2026-05.json
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/Voice%20Channels/general/diy-scl/2026-05/2026-05.json

**Content**

```text
oh right forgot that single-ended companion exists
```

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---

## message-1499837378334953542

**2026-05-01T18:18:16.626+00:00 — namibj**

- Message ID: `1499837378334953542`
- Author ID: `262706220073222144`
- Nickname: namibj
- User name: namibj
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1499830130900598967/1499837378334953542
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/diy-scl/2026-05/2026-05.json
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/Voice%20Channels/general/diy-scl/2026-05/2026-05.json

**Content**

```text
well, more like, that it (a) does exist and that (b) domino logic refers to it.
```

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---

## message-1499837695478726782

**2026-05-01T18:19:32.239+00:00 — namibj**

- Message ID: `1499837695478726782`
- Author ID: `262706220073222144`
- Nickname: namibj
- User name: namibj
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1499830130900598967/1499837695478726782
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/diy-scl/2026-05/2026-05.json
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/Voice%20Channels/general/diy-scl/2026-05/2026-05.json

**Content**

```text
which makes them somewhat similar in synthesis considerations, though MCML isn't as forced to use a dedicated one-shot precharge
```

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---

## message-1499838735607533778

**2026-05-01T18:23:40.225+00:00 — namibj**

- Message ID: `1499838735607533778`
- Author ID: `262706220073222144`
- Nickname: namibj
- User name: namibj
- Type: `Default`
- Discord message: https://discord.com/channels/1361349522684510449/1499830130900598967/1499838735607533778
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/%E2%84%B9%EF%B8%8F%20-%20Information/general/diy-scl/2026-05/2026-05.json
- Archive source: https://discord.wafer.space/wafer-space/Voice%20Channels/general/diy-scl/2026-05/2026-05.json

**Content**

```text
I've been more concerned with the difficulty of power gating MCML and it's near indifference to clock gating (and related, abhorrent power consumption of DFF-RAM), regarding practical usability.
```

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---